On 2024-06-21 10:02:14 Russian Bridgitte said:
Disrespectful J_J?

No. It IS unacceptable because nobody has the balls to be truthful about the crap in this country and until such time people learn to be the good citizens they supposed to be we will suffer at the hands of the elitist corrupt and the mickey mouse crap that should have no place when it comes to addressing true longterm sustainability for the good of country and people .

What I find disrespectful is the audicity of many who dare not call a spade a fucking shovel for, THAT is exactly what it is.

RB.

Incredibly disrespectful (and very disappointing coming from someone who I don't always agree with, but who is at least usually reasonably thoughtful).

It is ridiculously condescending for you to tell people that the exercise of their democratic right to vote for who they wish to represent them means that they are not "good citizens". What, just because my views/preferences don't match those of the majority, they're not worthy of representation? On what basis do you want to deny the legitimacy of the choice that those who voted for a smaller party have expressed?


That's not how it works - majoritarianism is simply a decision making system, not a moral imperative. Democracy is still premised on the rights of the individual - even if that individual is in a minority (even a tiny minority), including the right of people (even minorities) to choose their representatives.

When we set up our democratic system, we said the seats in parliament would be divided in a manner that is proportional to the votes that each received - there's no caveat that says "provided that RB thinks you're big enough"

(P.S - I'm not sure if it was a simple slip or deliberately disingenuous but equating small parties with corruption is absolute horseshit. Unless you haven't noticed its the big party that has really plundered this country's resources)

A beautiful, we'll mannered women once wrote:

"Humans and the importance of self. Why not.

The problem becomes when one stops listening to sound advise, taking on a demi-god attitude and shunning all and sundry in the wake of them offering their guidance.
To be a person of credibility does not mean one should lose ones humility. It doesn't mean a crown gets bestowed on ones head allowing rudeness, arrogance and aggressiveness.

A person of credibility, in the wake of their success....big or small....at the same time grows in kindness and acceptance of others, reaching out in ways different, leaving a positive impression. Their maturity of emotion, understanding criticism for nothing more than a pointing out of potential shortfalls that should be addressed.
They are not ashamed at these shortfalls but, silently and diligently apply themselves to bettering that wrong....coming out stronger in the end.
A person of credibility is very slow to judge and careful when doing so...understanding the ripple effect of words spoken in haste and bias.

They take note of their surrounding, the people around them, learning and listening.
They know how to respect and know the worth of everything they come across...they never forget their origins and thus....never disrespect the roots of another.
They are neither brash or loud...yet heard when choosing to speak. Their whisper louder than a shout
Their silence golden and their words even more.
They simply look to make their lives better and in the process make the lives of others lighter too.

A person of substance....a credible person....a rare commodity amongst us humans."
___
Hopefully politics doesn't corrupt everyone ...

....and I still stand by it my dearest J_J with great conviction seeing the poorest of the poor being treated worse by the very same who claimed to have fought for democracy and equality for all.

An even greater evil when one's own pretends to know not of the plight of the most needy.

Humility does not mean turning a blind eye to that which has brought on greater poverty and the so called " reinvention " of the wheel.

RB.

JP82...


Please show me where i said one is NOT a good citizen for voting for ANY party they wish to vote for???

"... It is ridiculously condescending for you to tell people that the exercise of their democratic right to vote for who they wish to represent them means that they are not "good citizens". What, just because my views/preferences don't match those of the majority, they're not worthy of representation? On what basis do you want to deny the legitimacy of the choice that those who voted for a smaller party have expressed?...."


I think you need to reread what I wrote instead of putting your twist to my statement


RB.

Do I actually need to explain to you what has happened in this conversation?
Ok Jeesus --
After you said -- "Dilution 100%. These mickey mouse players get elected as MP's get paid a serious cushy salary for being an MP doing very little or nothing at all. "
JJ said : "Views of people being useless and diluting etc is just disrespectful..."
To which you responded "Disrespectful J_J?
No. It IS unacceptable because nobody has the balls to be truthful about the crap in this country and until such time people learn to be the good citizens they supposed to be..."

In the context of the above conversation The "*IT*" which is being discussed (which you explicitly describe as unacceptable) is the "dilution" of votes / existence of smaller parties. Unless this is the actual point at which you conflate the issues of small parties and corruption? In which case its just particularly shitty writing/comprehension on your part -- when the conversation is about smaller parties/dilution, if you want to switch topics you really should be explicit about that.

"I think you need to reread what I wrote instead of putting your twist to my statement"

This is how this conversation has gone:

JO_JO: Too many parties. IEC should do something...
RB: Agreed. Dilution...
J_J: That's "disrespectful to the electorate"
RB: Disrespectful? No. It IS unacceptable ... until such time people learn to be the good citizens they supposed to be
...
RB: Where did I say one is NOT a good citizen for voting for ANY party they wish to vote for???

Ok Jeesus.. back at YOU JP82!

Don't selectively quote and take things out of context


So Jeesus again back at YOU JP82.!!!


I SAID....

"Dilution 100%.

These mickey mouse players get elected as MP's get paid a serious cushy salary for being an MP doing very little or nothing at all.


Tax payers money that could be put to better use."

GET THE GIST???...NO MENTION OF BAD CITIZENSHIP.

J_J SAID....

"..I completely disagree. Hope we never ever come to a 2 party country. The smaller parties add more colours to the rainbow, and increases our representation. It is quite clear that due to low voter turnout, that we still don't have parties that represent everyone.

The value af small parties are that they can bring private bills to Parliament in relation to the constituencies they serve, especially if your issue is not mainstream yet. They may fail, but it provides a good reflection of where society views fall.

Views of people being useless and diluting etc is just disrespectful to the electorate and the reason why you don't want this kind of polarisation (which normally comes with 2 part states ... it's us or them or they the useless bunch who don't vote ... and more default to the useless bunch over time)..."

ME STILL TALKING ABOUT DILUTION....

Disrespectful J_J?

No. It IS unacceptable because nobody has the balls to be truthful about the crap in this country and until such time people learn to be the good citizens they supposed to be we will suffer at the hands of the elitist corrupt and the mickey mouse crap that should have no place when it comes to addressing true longterm sustainability for the good of country and people .

What I find disrespectful is the audicity of many who dare not call a spade a fucking shovel for, THAT is exactly what it is.


....and HERE Citizenship MEANS MORE THAN SIMPLY VOTING!...and if solely talking about voting as already made mention of, putting ego's aside which would be a miracle, THEN u can tell me i have fucked up in what I have said.



RB

Deleted. Responded in haste and was unnecessarily rude

On 2024-06-21 16:42:52 JP82 said:
Deleted. Responded in haste and was unnecessarily rude

Thank you...

Because I can just imagine how badly I have rubbed u up the wrong way as u have me.

And if I may...


Pls next time...I ain't an embicile as I am sure you are not either.

So pls leave words like "jeesus" out no matter how fucked up u think my point of view is.

Again.


Thank you for playing the "ball" and not me.

RB.

I quite explicitly explained the context of the conversation.

If someone says "the problem is dilution/small parties..." and you respond with "Agreed. People need to learn to be good citizens", what exactly is it that you *think* you are saying?

Its not some waffle about active citizenship, unless you explicitly say that BECAUSE THE CONTEXT IS A CONVERSATION ABOUT DILUTION.