Having fought a bush war and having served for over 10 years in the SAPF / SAPS, I have no time for terrorists, nor terrorist sympathisers.

OMW guys...all Savanna did was empathise with the innocent lives lost in France. Innocent lives are lost all over the world every second/minute of the day as we're all too fully aware. No one is disputing that fact.

My heart goes out to the families and loved ones lost in France. Thanx for the post Sav.

XOXOXO

I just can't wrap my head around the mindset of those maniacs.
As someone posted on fb, IS (and I suppose other similar groupings) is about as representative of Islam as the Ku Klux Klan is to Christianity.

The root cause is the West's GREED for oil. West creates false flag operations such as 9/11 and attacks the countries for no reason. America attacked Iraq on lies that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction (WMD), to this day no WMD found but over a million people lost their lives, +500 000 being children through American aggression. And thus was planted the seeds of radicalisation and revenge by the west's aggression against the muslim people. West is reaping what it has sowed and it is going to just get worst. There is a never ending cycle of violence. If your family, relatives and friend are bombed, mercilessly and cowardly from high above the air, right before your eyes then no one expects you to "turn the other cheek." West should withdraw its airplanes send in all its ground forces and have a fair fight instead of cowardly bombing from the air......

On 2015-11-17 09:46:24 RoyBash said:
The root cause is the West's GREED for oil. West creates false flag operations such as 9/11 and attacks the countries for no reason. America attacked Iraq on lies that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction (WMD), to this day no WMD found but over a million people lost their lives, +500 000 being children through American aggression. And thus was planted the seeds of radicalisation and revenge by the west's aggression against the muslim people. West is reaping what it has sowed and it is going to just get worst. There is a never ending cycle of violence. If your family, relatives and friend are bombed, mercilessly and cowardly from high above the air, right before your eyes then no one expects you to "turn the other cheek." West should withdraw its airplanes send in all its ground forces and have a fair fight instead of cowardly bombing from the air......

+500 000 being children ? Really... who is talking false flag here.
Was the grounds for the Iraq war a patent lie, yes... no dispute the US handed the world a pile of BS. Was Saddam a lunatic who gassed how many Kurds and invaded Kuwait, yes... No dispute there either is there ?
Part of what led up to the war was Saddam playing games with the UN Inspectors, if he had followed the rules of the inspection program the US who have had no leg to stand on. By doing so he is fact created the legal space for the invasion as per the UN's own rules. He was hoist by his own petard.
Right or wrong, he was also at fault here.

You have also failed to take into account the Saudi sponsored sectarian violence that took 10 times as many lives as the "coalition of the willing" otherwise know as the "coalition of blind idiots".

Its all very well and good making statement like it was a war for oil, but who though were the major winners in terms of the oil exports ? Europe and Russia. Not the US, not by a long shot...
The biggest consumer of oil in the world is in fact China, the biggest polluter in the world is in fact China... that is in the east by the way. Europe actually uses more of it's own natural gas then crude which is why they could cut of the Russian oil and gas so easily.

Don't get me wrong, the US should have never entered Iraq.. it was a fools errand to be sure. But to lay all the blame at their feet is incredibly short sighted and simply feeds into the narrative of an Anti-west sentiment that is patently contrived.
Where is your moral outrage at the blocking of UN and NATO action in Syria by the Russians, who are now killing more civilians a day then the US was achieving in a month. Where is you outrage at the Saudi decimation of Yemen, a sovereign nation with no conflict with Saudi Arabia. Where is you moral outrage at Hezbollah entering the Syrian conflict at the behest of Iran. Where is you moral outrage at the amount of weapons supplied by both Russia and China in each and every one of these conflicts ?

If you are going to take the moral high ground then by all means go for it, but please make sure you are not cloaking your anti-west bias with the shield of Human Rights because you do a major disservice to those who actively work in these regions to support those who are affected...

Whether it's 500 000 children or 100 000 or ... the blasé way the number of deaths is denied or even defended is indicative of how immune much of the world has become to one the worst genocides in the history of the world.
This "us and them" mentality which has evolved will spell the end of the so-called civilized world as we know it.
The only "us and them" are "us" the workers, the average citizen, human just trying to make a living, provide for our families and live in harmony with our fellow citizens and fellow human world dwellers. The "them" are the "warmongers", the 'politicians', the religious zealots, the "profit mongers", the royal bloods who control the media, the ideologies, the finances and ultimately control the minds of the citizens of the world.
My heart bleeds for the world - no borders - no hierarchy.
As a citizen of this world all life should be treated equally, be it the victims and their families in Paris, Beirut, Garissa, Darfur, Damascus, New York, Baghdad, Islamabad, Bali, Beslan or Tripoli.
Sadly this circle of hatred and violence will escalate and those who are consciously or subconsciously, orchestrating or contributing to the demise of the world will prevail.

Totally agree wiv Smokey.On the flip side,all of these terror attacks were predicted in 1991 by an MI6 OP,(now ex-MI6 turned author)but the West and UK turned a deaf ear,oil was more important than a few lives,and more recently Dr.David Kelly was silenced for trying to speak out.

@deamonza educate yourself, don't be brainwashed by american LIES.....
The over 500000 children died just from sanctions alone, add to that another tens of thousands through cowardly american airstrikes and their aggression on the ground:

Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that’s more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?
Secretary of State Madeleine Albright: I think this is a very hard choice, but the price–we think the price is worth it.
www.youtube.com/watch

It was the US and UK “playing games” not Saddam. This is what Hans Blix, the man in charge of finding Saddam’s WMD had to say:
……the man first charged with finding those weapons said that the U.S. government has "the same mind frame as the witch hunters of the past" — looking for evidence to support a foregone conclusion.
"There were about 700 inspections, and in no case did we find weapons of mass destruction," said Hans Blix, the Swedish diplomat called out of retirement to serve as the United Nations' chief weapons inspector from 2000 to 2003; from 1981 to 1997 he headed the International Atomic Energy Agency. "We went to sites [in Iraq] given to us by intelligence, and only in three cases did we find something" - a stash of nuclear documents, some Vulcan boosters, and several empty warheads for chemical weapons. More inspections were required to determine whether these findings were the "tip of the iceberg" or simply fragments remaining from that deadly iceberg's past destruction, Blix said he told the United Nations Security Council. However, his work in Iraq was cut short when the United States and the United Kingdom took disarmament into their own hands in March of last year.
Saddam Hussein and the Iraqis were cooperating with U.N. inspections, and in February 2003 had provided Blix's team with the names of hundreds of scientists to interview, individuals Saddam claimed had been involved in the destruction of banned weapons. Had the inspections been allowed to continue, Blix said, there would likely be a very different situation in Iraq today. As it was, America's pre-emptive, unilateral actions "have bred more terrorism there and elsewhere."

1. @deamonza educate yourself, don't be brainwashed by american LIES.....

Really now, I have over a year and half on the ground in Iraq, How long were you there ?

2. Lesley Stahl on U.S. sanctions against Iraq: We have heard that a half million children have died. I mean, that’s more children than died in Hiroshima. And, you know, is the price worth it?

Have heard being the key words, there has never been any proof to substantiate this claim by the Iraqi's.

3. It was the US and UK “playing games” not Saddam. This is what Hans Blix, the man in charge of finding Saddam’s WMD had to say:
"We went to sites [in Iraq] given to us by intelligence, and only in three cases did we find something" - a stash of nuclear documents, some Vulcan boosters, and several empty warheads for chemical weapons.

You are not telling the truth... I will attach a complete timeline until the invasion for your edification.

4. More inspections were required to determine whether these findings were the "tip of the iceberg" or simply fragments remaining from that deadly iceberg's past destruction,

Which since '91 had been requested and Iraq had not complied with multiple UN resolution, note, not US resolutions... UN.

5. Blix said he told the United Nations Security Council. However, his work in Iraq was cut short when the United States and the United Kingdom took disarmament into their own hands in March of last year.
Saddam Hussein and the Iraqis were cooperating with U.N. inspections, and in February 2003 had provided Blix's team with the names of hundreds of scientists to interview, individuals Saddam claimed had been involved in the destruction of banned weapons.

Yes, after 10 years of buggering around he finally cottoned on to the fact that the US was serious, note the dates. He had years to comply and instead fooled around and a moment before the invasion tried to play "oops, here you go"

6. Had the inspections been allowed to continue, Blix said, there would likely be a very different situation in Iraq today. As it was, America's pre-emptive, unilateral actions "have bred more terrorism there and elsewhere."

My point exactly... Even Hans Blix agreed, if weapons inspection had been allowed to continue it would have been different... Instead they were played around with for how long ??? Legally the war was on point, morally it was a different kettle of fish and bankrupt in that sense. I have never agreed with the war, not at all, just that you can't lay all the blame in the US.

April 3, 1991 - The United Nations passes Security Council Resolution 687.

April 6, 1991 - Iraq accepts SCR 687.

April 18, 1991 - Under the terms of SCR 687, Iraq gives a detailed account of its weapons inventory and denies it has a biological weapons program.

June 9, 1991 - UNSCOM begins its first inspection looking for chemical weapons.

June 17, 1991 - The U.N. Security Council passes SCR 699, which reaffirms the authority of UNSCOM and the IAEA to conduct inspections in Iraq.

June 23-28, 1991 - Iraqis fire warning shots at inspectors to prevent them from intercepting vehicles suspected of carrying nuclear equipment.

June 30, 1991 - UNSCOM begins its first missile inspection.

August 2, 1991 - Iraq admits to biological weapons research for "defensive purposes" only.

August 15, 1991 - The Security Council passes SCR 707, demanding that Iraq completely reveal all of its prohibited weapons and weapons programs.

September 6, 1991 - Iraq blocks the use of helicopters by UNSCOM teams.

September 21-30, 1991 - IAEA inspectors discover documents relating to Iraq's nuclear weapons program. Iraqi officials prevent the inspectors from leaving the site for four days.

October 11, 1991 - The United Nations passes SCR 715. It outlines the plans for ongoing monitoring and verification in Iraq. In response, Iraq says that SCR 715 is unlawful and that it's not ready to comply.

March 19, 1992 - Iraq declares that it once possessed 89 missiles and chemical weapons, but destroyed them in the summer of 1991. This unilateral destruction of weapons is a violation of SCR 687.

June 1992 - Iraq delivers its first "Full, Final and Complete Disclosure" on its chemical weapons programs.

July 1992 - UNSCOM destroys some Iraqi chemical weapons and production facilities.

July 6-29, 1992 - Inspectors are prevented from searching the Ministry of Agriculture by Iraqi officials. They stage a 17 day sit-in.

July 5, 1993 - UNSCOM leaves Iraq.

November 26, 1993 - Iraq accepts the terms of SCR 715.

June 1994 - UNSCOM destroys material and equipment relating to chemical weapons production.

October 15, 1994 - SCR 949 passes. The resolution demands that Iraq begin cooperating with UNSCOM and withdraw its troops massed on the border with Kuwait.

March 1995 - Iraq releases its second "Full, Final and Complete Disclosure" of biological and chemical weapons programs.

April 14, 1995 - SCR 986 passes. The resolution allows Iraq to begin exporting oil in exchange for food and medicine.

July 1, 1995 - Iraq admits the existence of its biological weapons program.

August 1995 - Iraq releases the third "Full, Final and Complete Disclosure" relating to its biological weapons programs.

November 1995 - Iraq delivers its second disclosure report on its missile programs.

December 16, 1995 - UNSCOM has the Tigris River near Baghdad searched. They uncover over 200 missile parts, believed to have originated in Russia.

May 1996 - Al-Hakam, a facility used for the production of biological weapons agents, is destroyed.

June 1996 - Iraq releases a revised third "Full, Final and Complete Disclosure" on its biological weapons programs.

September 25, 1997 - During an inspection of a food laboratory, inspectors seize suspicious documents concerning bacteria and chemicals. The documents originate from the Iraqi Special Security Office. UNSCOM is prevented from inspecting SSO's headquarters.

August 5, 1998 - Iraq decides to suspend cooperation with UNSCOM until its demands for an end to the embargo and a reorganization of UNSCOM are met.

September 9, 1998 - The U.N. Security Council passes SCR 1194, condemning Iraq's lack of cooperation.

October 31, 1998 - Iraq stops all UNSCOM inspections.

November 18, 1998 - Inspectors return to Iraq.

December 1, 1998 - Iraq halts cooperation with inspectors.

December 15, 1998 - Chief weapons inspector Richard Butler delivers a report to the U.N. Security Council which details Iraq's lack of cooperation on inspections.

December 16, 1998 - Weapons inspectors leave Iraq.

December 17, 1998 - U.S. and British forces launch air strikes against Iraq. Operation Desert Fox lasts for four days.

January 8, 1999 - The United States admits that U.N. weapons inspectors installed surveillance equipment used to spy on Saddam Hussein.

December 17, 1999 - Security Council Resolution 1284 replaces UNSCOM with UNMOVIC.

January 29, 2002 - U.S. President George W. Bush labels Iraq part of an "axis of evil" in his State of the Union speech.

September 16, 2002 - Iraq agrees unconditionally to the return of inspectors.

September 19, 2002 - Iraqi Foreign Minister Naji Sabri delivers a letter to the United Nations from Saddam Hussein stating that Iraq has no chemical, nuclear or biological weapons.

October 1, 2002 - The United Nations and Iraq agree on terms they say are consistent with existing U.N. resolutions. The United States threatens to veto unless a U.S. resolution is approved that would allow military action for non-compliance by Iraq.

November 8, 2002 - The U.N. Security Council passes Resolution 1441.

November 13, 2002 - Iraq delivers a letter to U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan, accepting the terms set forth in resolution 1441.

November 27, 2002 - Inspections resume in Iraq.

December 7, 2002 - Iraq submits a 12,000 page report on its WMD programs.

January 16, 2003 - Inspectors discover 12 chemical warheads, 11 of them empty, at the Ukhaider ammunition storage area.

January 20, 2003 - After two days of negotiation, Hans Blix, Mohamed ElBaradei, and Iraqi officials reach an agreement about Iraqi cooperation and concessions regarding the inspections.

February 5, 2003 - Secretary of State Colin Powell briefs the U.N. Security Council on inspections. He presents evidence that the United States says proves Iraq has misled inspectors and hid proscribed weapons and equipment.

February 14, 2003 - Blix and ElBaradei brief the U.N. Security Council. Blix reports that the inspectors have not yet found any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. Blix also reports that Iraq is in violation of U.N. resolutions concerning its al Samoud 2 missile program.

February 19, 2003 - Inspectors visit the Ibn al Haytham factory northwest of Baghdad and tag 32 al Samoud II missiles.

February 27, 2003 - Iraq agrees to destroy the country's al Samoud II missile stock. However, the letter doesn't specify a date that the missile destruction will begin.

March 10, 2003 - It is revealed that Iraq possesses drone aircraft that could have been used to launch a chemical or biological attack against other countries. The plane has a wingspan of 24 feet five inches, which suggests that it could fly further than 150km/93 miles, which is the limit imposed by U.N. resolutions.

March 18, 2003 - Inspectors withdraw from Iraq.

March 20, 2003 - (local time) U.S. and coalition forces begin military action against Iraq.