The invasion of Iraq was illegal.
It was not sanctioned by the UN.
The warmongers, Bush (USA) and Blair (UK) defied the UN and most of the world to illegally invade a sovereign country.
Their meddling in the Middle East, backed and financed by their Saudi partner, trying to topple 'non-compliant' governments has led to the carnage and humanitarian catastrophe we see today.

@deamonza

"Really now, I have over a year and half on the ground in Iraq, How long were you there ?"

Explains why you have blinkers on.........you are part and parcel of american lies and deception!

You can't fool ALL of the people All of the time!

On 2015-11-18 15:24:42 RoyBash said:

You can't fool ALL of the people All of the time!

You are right RoyBash, people all over the world are waking up to the lies and deception which emanate from within Washington DC.

It is becoming more and more difficult for America to dismiss criticism of its foreign policy.

Nor is it only coming only from third world countries, but this wake up call comes from the sophisticated citizenry of first world countries Europe , UK and from within America itself.

Propaganda - "information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view." (quoted)

Switching between BBC, CNN and RT....

Same news. Different viewpoint and each one rings true to some degree and appeals to ones empathy, anger, astonishment, sense of logic.

Do the politicians care that they blatantly mislead people for the sake of the few who are power hungry?

Task at hand...

Destabilize through mass propaganda.
Create confusion.
Mass thought domination through fear.

But

Somewhere in the recesses of the subconcious, logic is coming to the fore and people are stirring and reacting.
About time.

B.

On 2015-11-18 15:08:16 honeybear said:
The invasion of Iraq was illegal.
It was not sanctioned by the UN.
The warmongers, Bush (USA) and Blair (UK) defied the UN and most of the world to illegally invade a sovereign country.
Their meddling in the Middle East, backed and financed by their Saudi partner, trying to topple 'non-compliant' governments has led to the carnage and humanitarian catastrophe we see today.

Actually it wasn't illegal... the previous resolutions all allowed the US to act in this from a legal standpoint. Hence they have never been legally taken to any court in the world about it. The UN is well aware of this and hates it, but the law is the law.

Please note though, throughout my whole explanation I have not once said the US was innocent, I have pointed out clearly from a moral standpoint that is was a complete nightmare. All I have said is that the US is not completely to blame, some of the mess that led to the invasion was the fault of Iraq.

It is my opinion the worst players in this catastrophe are in fact the Saudi's... they were saying one thing to the US and the rest of the world while completely undermining them within their religious expansionism. A lot of what is really is going on can clearly be laid down at the feet of the Saudi's, it was they who were supporting the sectarian violence in Iraq, it was they who supported the beginnings of IS through this religious war now waged in the middle east.

Irony of Ironies, the Saudi's are now the Chair for Woman's Rights in Geneva...

On 2015-11-18 15:24:42 RoyBash said:
@deamonza

"Really now, I have over a year and half on the ground in Iraq, How long were you there ?"

Explains why you have blinkers on.........you are part and parcel of american lies and deception!

You can't fool ALL of the people All of the time!

I have at no point worked for the US or UK in Iraq or any theater of conflict or in any other capacity. Clear enough ? Concise enough ?

You still haven't answered the question though, you are the one accusing me of being blind, being part of the US deception but you have backed it up with nothing ?
What is your experience in Iraq ?

Every time I have answered I have been as factual as possible... you however have only supplied tired rhetoric and tin-foil hat nonsense that is clearly not accurate.

On 2015-11-18 18:39:34 Ben Layden said:
On 2015-11-18 15:24:42 RoyBash said:
You can't fool ALL of the people All of the time!

You are right RoyBash, people all over the world are waking up to the lies and deception which emanate from within Washington DC.

It is becoming more and more difficult for America to dismiss criticism of its foreign policy.

Nor is it only coming only from third world countries, but this wake up call comes from the sophisticated citizenry of first world countries Europe , UK and from within America itself.

America for the last 3 years hasn't really had a foreign policy that could be rebelled against... with the congress and senate so deadlocked there little to nothing done in Syria and all these new hotspots. SO you can't blame the US for them at all.
In Syria, you can blame the Russians for consistently using their Veto to block any and all action by the UN. You can blame China for the watering down of the Darfur mandate. You can blame the Russian's for no UN action in Ukraine even though they have asked for it. You can blame Hezbollah for Lebanon.

But nobody is saying this, all everybody see's is the usual misdirection targets, the US and of Israel. Everything is their fault... the world economy collapses, it is the their fault, never mind that our bankers were buying the same junk, we blame the US.
It is our default reaction these days because that is the propaganda we are exposed to, the worlds media has an easy target.

Is the US innocent, hell no, Watergate, the bay of pigs, Gitmo, the Cuban sanctions, Iraq, Iran, the list is endless.... but they are not to blame for everything. It is this very attitude that allows countries like Russia to get away with as much as it does.

A single US death penalty sentence being carried out make headlines news... The murder by Hamas of 18 unarmed, kneeling, blindfolded and bound men accused only of collaborating in Gaza does not.

With respect, deamonza, i beg to differ.
In 2004, the Secretary General of the UN declared that that in the view of the UN and in terms of its charter, the 2003 invasion of Iraq was illegal. The US and UK had tried to (and still do) defend it by stating that the previous resolutions had given them the authority to invade but this has been refuted in that they were obligated to get an additional resolution for the invasion, which they failed to do, thus making it illegal under the UN Charter.
Saudi Arabia, the US ally and co-conspirator in the Middle East and Syrian conflict, have been instrumental in the rise and arming of ISIL in their quest to overthrow Assad in Syria and to weaken Iran. The Middle East, Europe and the world are now paying the price.

On 2015-11-19 11:50:00 honeybear said:
With respect, deamonza, i beg to differ.
In 2004, the Secretary General of the UN declared that that in the view of the UN and in terms of its charter, the 2003 invasion of Iraq was illegal. The US and UK had tried to (and still do) defend it by stating that the previous resolutions had given them the authority to invade but this has been refuted in that they were obligated to get an additional resolution for the invasion, which they failed to do, thus making it illegal under the UN Charter.

Yes, he did so... And he was wrong. As has been proved many times. He gave an opinion on legality without taking note of the previous resolutions which gave the permissions in accordance to the UN Charter, these could not be overruled by the later resolutions as they were created with that specific legal architecture in place...
This has actually been ruled on by a few courts.
Had they immediately created a new resolution after the US request it could have been ruled illegal but this never happened and would have been vetoed anyway.

Please also note, there is no rule in the UN Charter that has a requirement for asking the UN for permission. Only that all actions taken comply with international law.
The UN Charter is not law.

Like I said, it was certainly immoral, but not illegal.

A similar case was made by the SG of the Human Rights Council (Navi Pillay) after the Israeli action on the Turkish ship that tried to break the naval blockade. All the NGO's, Governments all ran around saying it was illegal... however upon legal testing by many many courts it was ruled completely legal and completely within Israeli rights to enforce the blockade.

Here's what you have failed to grasp... I am not pro-US, I am pro accurate facts. It's the ad nauseam regurgitation of numbers like half a million Iraqis killed by the US that is helping in creating so much conflict. The real numbers are around 125,000 with at least 65% of those killed by Iraqi insurgents and 10% from roadside bombings... this is over a period of 11 years. so the US numbers are far less then what IS have managed this year alone.
85% of the casualties in Afghanistan were killed by the Taliban, but every one seems happy so say all deaths are at the hands of the US.

For me it is constant vomiting of these types of inaccurate facts that is helping to feed this anti west fervor sweeping the middle east and the rest of the world. And for some reason the people swallowing these "facts" are not even bothering to test their accuracy before repeating them to others as "fact".
What ever happened to critical thinking ?
You as a human being may hate on the US all you like, all I would ask is that you do so being sure of your information.

Ja well no fine Deamonza!!