On 2015-10-22 18:39:35 Ben Layden said:
The SA govt did the right thing by pulling out of the ICC.

When Benjamin Netanyahu, Tony Blair and George Bush are brought before the ICC, then only can the ICC be taken seriously.

Would you accept a police officer saying he could not arrest the person who raped your family because he is required to arrest someone else on a completely unrelated matter first, even though he knows who the person is and can get him easily ?
Then why should we accept the same lame excuse, and I am sorry but it is only an excuse that has been to used to allow a person who deliberately slaughtered the people of Darfur to walk away without any action taken against him.

Or shall I equate it another way, do the life of Palestinians, Iraqis have a higher value then those of the people of Darfur ? We always say we need to take care of Africa as Africans but demand Justice for foreigners from foreign continents before we demand justice for those we claim are brothers.
Is this not what the apartheid government believed, that white lives were worth more then black ?
The AU has been around for longer then the ICC, yet it has done nothing at all... Except shield how many dictators from the law and allow them to continue wholesale slaughter.

Bashir was active and in power long before Bush. So even chronology is a lame argument.

Even if you take away the ICC, we as a country adopted the Rome statute laws into our own... They are South Africa law now... and our government broke those laws completely. They stood in front of the courts, the people of SA and in fact that world and took a huge steaming shit on the hundreds of thousands of victims of Bashir.

None of the arguments that can be made for our government allowing him to leave are worth a damned thing to those families left behind.
As a self proclaimed bastion of Human Rights on this continent our government and those who support this particular disaster have said in a loud and clear voice...
Fuck 'em, they are only African !

Gents (and ladies)
I am tempted to join this discussion and have quite a few points that I wish to share and raise.
Nonetheless, I am not quite sure how an emotive topic such as #feesmustfall belongs here. This thread has also gone horribly OT, which tells me that ESA moderation of the forum are akin to parliament -- completely unprepared for the response.
There are plenty of forums where this can be discussed ad nauseum, and where these very important points can be raised. There are very few forums (in fact, none) such as ESA, where many of us who seek the fulfilment of dreams, escapism, sexual fulfilment, joy, thrills, financial freedom, eroticism and power can congregate and enlighten one another on those topics which speak to our strengths, abilities, skills and sometimes, our dreams.
To suggest that we are not an emotional people would be denying us of those things that give us pleasure.
On the one hand, at least we are not debating every newbie's dream topic of racial and interracial interaction, but to share this platform with a political topic means that we invite the undercurrent of bad race relations (and bad business).
In a way, I am all for it -- after all it creates some interesting diversion and is fertile soil for gossip.
The I ask myself the question: What good can come from discussing it here (other than some polarised feelings and emotion fuelled hatred)? Do we really need it? I am not suggesting that we ignore the world and what is happening in it, but do we really have to be reminded of how bad it really is?
What I am suggesting that we all agree to close this one on this forum, for the one reason that it cannot possibly make things better for any of us. What exactly does one benefit by pointing to the evils of the ANC? On *this* forum? Added the fact that this can be debated on a dozen other forums right now?
So, if you really want to rant and rave about student fees, political parties, political ideologies, DA vs ANC, black / white morality, political ambitions, black corruption, white corruption, unfulfilled promises, tenderpreneurs, our multiple "ministers" of education who have achieved nothing except anarchy and everything else in between, please take it somewhere else (there are plenty of forums where they are welcomed) because over here, these sort of things can only hurt us all.
Those that have engaged in the debate thus far -- we understand that this is an emotive topic and that we can all get carried away sometimes. We love you all and want you back -- in ESA mode! Please ?

Jameslasting......cannot wait to meet u.
Bless u for putting it as diplomatically as possible!!!
Like u, many a time, as in this case, am very tempted to participate, and then have to severely remind myself of what ESA is all about.

Escapism.
Burning embers stirred.
Passionate yearnings.

Some things said, cannot be taken back and many a time uncalled for.

I stand and applaud u.

Bridgitte.

Well my original post was in many ways relevant to this platform, and I cannot claim responsibility for it being turned into a political debate. I know a few women who came to the city to study but circumstances pushed them into this business.

If the ESA regulators find my post irrelevant, by all means, #itmustfall along with many others. But what if those who find such debates distateful just simply looked away.

Maybe punters should join this call. Wg fees must fall as well

R13 000pm on fees. Wow, that could buy an epic orgy on this website. That is unreasonable, uni only for the rich then.

Let us not forget the influence of the academics salaries. Who pays for their above inflation increases in salary? Students parents. In my opinion some of the salaries earned at universities are much higher than comparable industry salaries. From charts it seems that salaries account for over half the universities costs, so a large increase in salaries means that students get nailed.

@Johnd. I respectfully disagree. Our Profs are in most instances completely underpaid and earn a lot less than they can earn in the private sector. Admittedly, they probably also does not work as hard. BUT, you want the smartest guys to become Profs. When the money is not there, it does not happen. Consequence is that students and research suffers...

And those hotties that don't make it through university can always advertise on ESA... just an option

The time honored adage holds true, in my opinion:
Nothing for mahala !

Sadly, mob rule is taking over.

In Switzerland and Germany, and I'm sure there are many others, the tertiary education fees are much, much lower than is the case here. And, the quality far better.
The problem in this country isn't that there isn't enough money, although no country has unlimited resources. But, it is merely a case of the political priorities. If there is a will there will be a way. The powers that be simply don't have the political will, nor the moral desire.