Really Savanna believe me Karma does happen.
I am Moslem, not Hindoo, but I really believe in Karma.
I have witnessed it happen.

Libya also had a President called Gaddafi who the UK, US and NATO said was bad, but his country was flourishing economically with oil flushing everywhere. It was the richest country in Africa, boasting its highest GDP per capita and fewer people lived under the poverty line than even the Netherlands, all under this bad President.
Then along came ....

I agree with you Ben Layden. Sometimes the wheel just turns slowly but it does turn.

On 2015-11-19 19:33:32 honeybear said:
Libya also had a President called Gaddafi who the UK, US and NATO said was bad, but his country was flourishing economically with oil flushing everywhere. It was the richest country in Africa, boasting its highest GDP per capita and fewer people lived under the poverty line than even the Netherlands, all under this bad President.
Then along came ....

Except for that Gaddafi fellow sponsoring terrorism, supporting a large portion of the rebel groups in africa and the middle east, demanding that Africa become the United States Of Africa with him at the helm, the execution of anyone who was not in full support of him, the fact there hadn't been an election in how long that could be called fair by any stretch of the imagination, his kids involved in murders overseas and torutre and murder at home, yip... he sure was an innocent fellow Gaddafi.

Please remember that Europe and the US had nothing to do with the start of the Arab Spring, that was on the citizens themselves, it was based on the request of the Libyan liberation leaders to the UN that NATO got involved with the UN's blessings... those pesky facts again, just can't get away from them.

On 2015-11-19 19:03:05 honeybear said:
And the irony is that now the majority of US states are not willing to take in any Syrian refugees. Yes the very people they made refugees by their backing (along with their Saidi cronies) of the opposition to Assad who are controlled by terrorist groups (not to mention ISIL).

Are the Russians ? Iran ? China ? Saudi Arabia and of the UA Emirates ??? Not a single Syrian refugee has been welcomed there and they are ones doing the bombing and blocking action... where is your moral outrage about them...

Oh right, forgot.... it's only about the US, silly me thinking you would actually be fair.

I will also point out a funny little law regarding immigration law, and this from IOM, UNHRC and UNHCR...

Any person seeking asylum, either on humanitarian grounds or political, must do so at the first border of contact that is considered safe.

So for the Syrians that would be Turkey, Serbia, Etc... not a headlong rush to the Netherlands and Germany. Please don't confuse economic migration with humanitarian. The statistics are showing a more then 60% average of single young males make up the migration numbers. This defies all known mass humanitarian migration statistics.

Make of that what you will.

And I am done... I feeling like I am rushing up against a wall of blindness and recalcitrance in even trying to use actual provable facts to debate a point...

No matter how you try and justify this attack on another region and culture, no matter how you try and lessen or dilute it or deflect blame to others, this was an unjustified attack against a nation who been proven not to have weapons of mass destruction, who was not a threat to you. They were invaded by persons who had no right to be there and as a result have devastated that vast region, which has/had its own unique culture, religion and important ancient history, plunging a whole generation into darkness and despair.
And instead of trying to be sympathetic to them, as we rightly are with other victims of this aftermath and try be constructive and repair some damage, the perpetrators and their sympathisers try and justify or dilute its role it has played, deflecting blame to those other bad guys and now even denying them entry into their hallowed ground.
This shows the impunity in which these desperate souls are considered and treated and the lack of humanity the “us” have towards “them”.
And while the argument rages around the world as to who is most to blame, a whole generation of innocent citizens of this world roam aimlessly around foreign lands in despair and hopelessness, while other world citizens now live in fear of them.
My heart bleeds for the world – no borders – no hierachy !

I, too have nothing further to say to you !

And some people still wonder why I became an atheist. The one major problem with the world: Believing in imaginary beings described in badly written, full of contradictions, works of fiction by sheep herders.

#Religion MUST FALL!!!!!!!
#Belief in imaginary sky daddies MUST FALL!!!!!!!!!

It's almost 2016 for fucks sakes! We are supposed to be living in an age of science and reason!!! To be truly FREE, abandon the shackles of religious slavery!